Well, sucks to be Acura and Infiniti, in this segment

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone)
05/25/2020 at 09:40 • Filed to: None

DISCUSSION (29)

Nibby > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 09:48

GS and RLX are dead after this year

interstate366, now In The Industry > Nibby
05/25/2020 at 10:10

Yeah, but the narrative!

interstate366, now In The Industry > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 10:11

So they have the ES and the ancient GS, plus the CTS and CT5, but only the RLX and not the TLX (which would have been 9th had it been included)? What?

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 10:14

I’ve driven a RLX and it wasn’t bad. Acura screwed up with a stupid naming convention, overly high prices, and too much focus on sedans. Honestly it’s the same problem that Cadillac and Lincoln face, too - they’ve got to be comparative bargains in order to get close to the Germans.

interstate366, now In The Industry > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
05/25/2020 at 10:26

Seeing an RLX in person, it really isn’t much bigger than a TLX, which would have been 9th on this list (26,000 sold) had it been included.

ClassicDatsunDebate > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 10:30

Nothin but Honqi jive

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > interstate366, now In The Industry
05/25/2020 at 10:39

See, and I thought the TLX was the bigger car. Stupid names. I can’t keep them straight, and neither could the consumer. Plus if I’m dropping $50k on a sedan, it’s not going to be a fancy Honda.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > ClassicDatsunDebate
05/25/2020 at 11:11

Kinja'd!!!

H5 is a Genesis carbon copy. The fact that it sold better than the original must really piss off Hyundai.

duurtlang > interstate366, now In The Industry
05/25/2020 at 11:21

I’m not too familiar with the Acura lineup, but wouldn’t the TLX be more of a 3-series / C-Class competitor? So, not E but D segment?

interstate366, now In The Industry > duurtlang
05/25/2020 at 11:27

It’s a bit muddy , because the D and E segments are essentially just lumped together as “mid-size” here.

interstate366, now In The Industry > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
05/25/2020 at 11:33

Why do Acuras have a stigma of “fancy Honda” while Lexus and Infiniti don’t for their base brands? The ES was a tarted up Camry for almost 30 years, then it became a tarted up Avalon, and Infiniti literally sold a Maxima with a different grille for awhile.

dogisbadob > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 12:31

It’s a shame because they are better cars than BMW, Mercedes, and Audi

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 12:37

Damn, t hat’s a cold-ass Honqi

fintail > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 13:08

Ooh I like the copycar.

Kind of a fun grouping here, not sure how the participants were decided - maybe size? Interior volume? I don’t think they all compete with each other in any real world market. I doubt anyone on the planet cross-shopped an ES with a Model S.

fintail > Nibby
05/25/2020 at 13:09

They were dead 5 years ago.

fintail > dogisbadob
05/25/2020 at 13:10

Bland design and almost zero brand cachet won’t get you far.

MrSnrub > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 13:22

I’m getting more of an Opel Insignia vibe from it to be honest

ClassicDatsunDebate > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
05/25/2020 at 13:34

EssExTee for two rolls in hella deep

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > interstate366, now In The Industry
05/25/2020 at 13:51

Infiniti has always had the tatted up Nissan stigma. Acura has had one most of their history. The original Lexus LS was almost indistinguishable from any Toyota. It was a freaking marvel for the era. Lexus later went downhill to some extent, but have always had a lot of unique vehicles in the line and such distinctly better build quality for most of it that it’s not seen that way.

We cross-shopped a top-trim Toyota against the same-platform Lexus and went with the Toyota due to the bodies being so distinctly different and feeling the Lexus badge was too bougie for us to feel comfortable, even though the Lexus would have been slightly cheaper with the same options. Humorously, a lot of the switchgear is absolutely identical.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > interstate366, now In The Industry
05/25/2020 at 14:09

The ES was a cash grab, sure, I’ll give you that, however is quite different than the Camry by way of NVH and quality control . But the Lexus IS, GS, GX, RX, and LS didn’t have any Toyota counterpart in the US and a large amount of their interior kit was unique to Lexus or at least unique in application vs. Toyota.

Does anybody buy Infiniti when it’s not a company lease?

interstate366, now In The Industry > Eric @ opposite-lock.com
05/25/2020 at 14:13

Yeah, one of the first mods I made to my GS was rebadging it as a Toyota. It has the infamous Toyota standard issue cruise control stalk. Otherwise the interior on it is quite nice for the age. The original LS was definitely a marvel, but the largely-forgotten original ES that was sold alongside it was literally a JDM Camry (its name in Japan was the Camry Prominent). My mom and stepdad both have G37 coupes, and the interior is all right, but I like my GS and TL better inside. My TL is much nicer inside than my old TSX was, and I even rank it above the TLX that replaced it.

interstate366, now In The Industry > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
05/25/2020 at 14:21

I’d also argue a lot of the stuff on Acuras is the same way compared to the Hondas they shared a chassis with. SH-AWD was, for years, exclusive to the brand (I think the Passport and Ridgeline now use it under the name iVTM-4 or something similar), and the ILX, while still a *previous generation* Civic at its core, has that well-received 8-speed DCT, although I think the 4-banger TLX also has that.

My mom and stepdad bought G37s, but they were both Nissan fans already. I know my stepdad has said he doesn’t like the Q50/60 though.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > fintail
05/25/2020 at 15:07

Size mostly - E-s egment. And price. Except for wildcards like Tesla and Hongqi, all other cars are, more or less, direct competitors.

fintail > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 15:48

Wheelbase or interior volume, perhaps.

The ES might be the one that raises my eyebrows - nobody shops that with the RWD Germans.

Chuck N > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/25/2020 at 19:19

I just bought an RLX SH-AWD. I got a low miles 2018 for $10k less than the top three. I think it’s a better car than all of them. FYI...the car shares very little with the Accord or even the TLX. It is much larger than either and the most powerful Honda sedan ever made. I also get over 30 mpg combined while doing 0-60 mph in 5 seconds. What’s not to love?

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > fintail
05/26/2020 at 04:21

I’d wager the vast majority Mercedes E-class drivers owners don’t cross shop with anything.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!
05/26/2020 at 10:12

Wow. According to google the E-Class, RLX, Q70, 5-series, and A6 all have the same (starting) MSRP of about $55k, with the Cadillacs and Jag coming in even lower. So yeah... I can’t imagine saying “Yes, as a new car buyer I’d rather have an 8 year old fancy Honda or a similarly old designed fancy Nissan over a similarly priced BMW/Mercedes/Jaguar/Cadillac/Audi .” Even with my sensible pants on I don’t think I’d make that call partly because Honda/Acura has had some quality issues recently but also because in terms of 5-year reliability I don’t think the Germans would be that bad. Cost of ownership would probably be a bit higher .

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > interstate366, now In The Industry
05/26/2020 at 10:21

Acura, Infinity, and to a lesser extent Audi all get the stigma of “fancy lesser brand” IMO because of late they look pretty much indistinguishable from their lesser counterparts. (Toyota/Lexus not included because I honestly can’t picture a single car in either lineup right now...) Sure close up they look... more.... but not enough MORE to imply they’re putting forth any effort. I realize this is unfair and a lot of additional work and R&D (probably) goes into these vehicles, but ultimately the end result is they look like the same vehicle with some fancy bits bolted to them.

fintail > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard
05/26/2020 at 13:07

Likely a lot of truth to that. Same for 5er and Model S.